Stans always have something to say. And that includes dropping misinformation online. We take a closer look at the Johnny Depp v. Amber Heard case and zero in on how misinformation was able to take over social media during this viral trial. Bridget Todd, host of “There Are No Girls on The Internet” podcast, joins us as our premiere guest!
Stans always have something to say. And that includes dropping misinformation online. We take a closer look at the Johnny Depp v. Amber Heard case and zero in on how misinformation was able to take over social media during this viral trial. Bridget Todd, host of “There Are No Girls on The Internet” podcast, joins us as our premiere guest!
Host: Eteng Ettah
Producer: Genevieve Montinar
Original Music Compositions by: Brandon Bagaason
Clip 1: Credit- @Queenof2000’s via TikTok
Clip 2: Credit- @LawByMike via TikTok
Clip 3: Credit- @ShannonHill via TikTok
Cip 4: Credit- CNN YT video
Clip 5: Credit- Billboard “A Full Breakdown of What We Know About the Alleged Fight Involving Megan Thee Stallion & Tory Lanez
Clip 6: Credit- CBS News “Notebook: Rihanna”
Clip 7: Credit- Today Show
Clip 8: Credit- @DylanWhite via TikTok
View the transcript here: https://actually-hold-up.simplecast.com/episodes/hold-up-here-come-the-stans/transcript
Make sure to follow MediaJustice on Twitter (X) @mediajustice and on Instagram @MediaJustice
Clip 1: 0:01
Alert alert the conversation between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard at the end of the trial was just leaked. Here's the transcript.
Clip 2: 0:06
Johnny Depp Amber Heard case in 60 seconds.
Clip3: You guys it has felt like an eternity and finally we're back. I actually feel like I have a glow to my skin like a cord glow like we're back baby.
Okay, it's day 16 of the trial. It's part like 33 of my deep dive, I have to double check just for reference. They are both wearing gray today. Okay, I want to jump into the feces gate because this gets brought up again and then we'll touch on everything else.
Eteng Ettah: If you spent two seconds on social media between April and June of 2022, you must definitely came across the viral defamation court case between actors Johnny Depp and Amber Heard every day seem to bring a new meme, a damning soundbite and a slew of influencers turn legal analysts who felt compelled to add their two cents. With social media inundated with stories from this trial, more likely than not, you might have had your own opinions on the case. Or did you?
Hi, I'm Eteng Ettah with MediaJustice, and this is "Actually... Hold Up" where we break down what you don't know about the stories you think you know, and why. misinformation is rampant, and popular stories often come to us from the media in a manipulated way.
Don't worry though, that's where we come in. In this episode, we're breaking down how the media was manipulated and in turn influence what you think you know about the depth of the herd case.
Eteng Ettah: 1:46
While the depth of the Heard trial brought up a lot of viewpoints, it also highlighted how opinions were portrayed as fact leading to misinformation on social media going viral. We'll be talking about how misinformation disseminates on social media and how that not only influences our opinions, but also perpetuates harmful narratives that put BIPOC and marginalized communities, particularly those who've experienced violence in danger. We'll look into the intentional crafting of hashtags and memes by influencers, fans, celebrities and opportunists to see how they were able to sway public opinion.
You think you know how to distinguish commentary and opinion from facts on social media, but actually there's a concerted behind the scenes effort to skew your understanding.
Eteng Ettah: 2:50
The Depp v. Heard trial underscores the impact status and legal power can have not just on trials, but in the court of public opinion. This case is unique in that both parties are celebrities. For this episode, we pay specific attention to Johnny Depp who has been in the public eye for over three decades and has had more time to develop name recognition and in turn public admiration. While we won't be rehashing the details of this case, nor advocating for criminal punishments, since we're abolitionist and support survivors here at MediaJustice, we do want to use this trial as an example of how misinformation spreads in real time on social media?
Let's take a few steps back and get some context. The defamation case between the two actors spurred after Amber Heard wrote an op ed in December 2018.
Clip 4: 3:44
At the center of the trial abuse allegations heard made in a 2018 Washington post op ed. Though she never named up in the article, he sued his ex wife for defamation, claiming in a $50 million suit that his career suffered as a result, Heard countersue Depp for $100 million.
Eteng Ettah: 4:05
Outside the legal realm, Johnny Depp's fans were shocked. The allegations did not reflect the character of a person they felt they knew and many of his ardent supporters voice their opinions about the case loud and clear. And this is where the rise of social media accounts overwhelmingly supporting Depp became very prominent and relevant to our story. In this episode, we'll look at what happens when a narrative is created, whether true or false, and is disseminated on social media where it gains public attention. We've all seen this happen in highly publicized court cases.
Clip 5 4:41
Here's everything we know so far about the alleged fight between Megan Thee Stallion and Tory Lanez.
Clip 6: 4:46
The story of Rihanna and Chris Brown has been tabloid fodder since the Grammys.
Eteng Ettah: Taking into consideration power status, class and gender. What does this mean when it comes to individuals who fall into the favorable catagories, and what does it look like on social media, when supporters are able to mobilize to spread narratives that are either biased or untrue?
Eteng Ettah: 5:21
The type of coverage you've seen surrounding the depth and heard case is not a coincidence, much of the stories and sound bites that you came across were present because a group of people were able to strategically launched social media campaigns that put out information that was either unverifiable out of context or just inaccurate.
To understand how this happens, we'll be using a framework developed by our friends at Harvard Shorenstein center on media, politics and public policies, technology and social change program led by Dr. Joan Donovan.
The media manipulation cycle may sound a bit wonky, but it's actually a very straightforward concept. It explains how stories we hear on the news, social media and other spaces are influenced by popular groups, powerful people, or even just random people on the internet who feel strongly about an issue or topic, the cycle moves and five stages. And while we don't necessarily need to be caught up with the names, we're using these episodes to break down the ways different stories you've come across, move along the cycle. So stick with us. We got you.
Groups and people with an understanding of how media works are able to expertly navigate online platforms in a way that will pique the audience's interest. They capture our attention through the use of slogans, images and other elements to become key players in the conversations which can be seen in this story. During the trial. Lots of social media accounts were posting content, which in large part said very similar things when it came to what they thought about the trial. Overwhelmingly fans and supporters of depth we're able to gain more traction through platforms like Twitter, Tiktok, and Instagram.
Let's take TikTok, for instance, reports that videos with hashtag justice for Johnny Depp gathered 12 billion views while videos that contained hashtag justice for Amber Heard had just 44 million views. It was also more common to see hashtags that oppose heard such as hashtag Amber Heard is a psychopath hashtag, Amber turd, and hashtag we just don't like you Amber. Hashtags are a smart way to communicate a message quickly because it's often clear and straight to the point. Their brevity shareability and ability to trend pushes posts that have the hashtag present to the top of search results, putting it in front of more social media users. And as we can see, in this case, influencers and fans with tweets and videos that went viral, impacted which narratives would be promoted to the broader public. And as we can see, in this case, influencers and fans with tweets and videos that went viral, impacted which narratives would be promoted to the broader public, for those of us casually following the case, when these posts came across our feeds, this meant that we were more likely to be subject to any misinformation present in these accounts as well.
The online rhetoric made its way to herds lawyers. In an interview after the civil trial was over Elaine Bredehoft Heard's lawyer spoke about the influence social media had on the jury,
Clip 7: 8:49
they went home every night, they have families, the families are on social media, we had a 10 day break in the middle because of the Judicial Conference. There's no way they couldn't have been influenced by and it was horrible. It really really was lopsided. I appreciate you're saying that, it's like the Roman Colosseum.
Eteng Ettah: 9:09
So how was this trial able to gain so much attention? The answer lies in the way it moved through this media manipulation cycle. Because this case was so high profile, it became extremely profitable for content creators to speak about it. creators and influencers quickly realized that videos and conversations surrounding this subject would gain millions of views and many wanted to capitalize. Even YouTubers who wouldn't ordinarily create content related to trials decided to talk about this one.
For example, an NBC News report showed a YouTuber who specifically made gaming content and another that focused on K Pop had pivoted their videos to address the trial, and it was because they understood there'd be more views. Being aware when a bandwagon trend arises is so important when it comes to identifying how certain groups and people are able to use social media to their benefit and create information that gets to you skewed in their favor. We see this all the time when it comes to viewership of cases that are either broadcasted or live streamed. In some ways they become a national event. individuals become influencers who act as trial commentators and drive up streams to make money which we see in the depth be heard case.
And it's important to keep in mind that this defamation case took place in the wake of the metoo movement, which has gained prominence over the past years with more and more high profile people speaking out against sexual and gender based violence. When heard would cry on the stand, we're counting what she experienced content creators would pull those clips and use it in their videos, some even fake crying beside her,
Clip 8:my dog stepped on a bee, my child spilt my tea, adulting isn't free. without my glasses, I cannot see, I want to learn Tai Chi, I ran out of coffee and had to make myself some tea.
Eteng Ettah: 11:16
This speaks to an ongoing issue of how survivors of abuse are treated in society and in the media. Despite the me to movement, it's clear the way survivors are viewed hasn't changed significantly. This reality is tenfold for survivors within marginalized communities. It's still a constant fight to be believed.
Eteng Ettah: 11:52
All right, so it's so exciting. This is our premiere episode of actually, and it's my honor to welcome our first guest of our season, Bridget Todd [applause]
And so I gotta take a step back a little bit because your resume is absolutely stacked. So let me tell you all about Bridget for a second and then I'll give you the chance to introduce yourself. So Bridget Todd is a frequently cited expert trainer, and speaker on combating disinformation and extremism online advocating for social media platform accountability, creating safer digital experiences for women and other marginalized people. And celebrating and amplifying marginalized people's contributions to tech and the internet. She created her critically acclaimed podcast, there are no girls on the Internet Explorer, a marginalized people show up online in response to the lack of inclusion and conversations around the internet. Thank you, Bridget.
Bridget Todd: Oh, my God. Thank you for that warm. Well, that was a great introduction.
Absolutely. Also, I didn't know I was the first guest. I'm so honored.
Eteng Ettah: Yes, yeah, we're on this beautiful journey of our new podcast together. So really excited to have you here. So diving in a little bit. So there's a lot to a lot of different ways we can break down this specific ways social media, this coordinated social media effort around the Heard V. Depp case. And so I'm going to zoom in and then zoom out a little bit before getting your perspectives on this. So during the case, we saw so many fandoms created as a way to show their support for their preferred side. And of course, we saw the most with Johnny Depp, fans and supporters. And a specific example I just want to share is the the fandom created around his lawyer in particular, which was so dominant across our timelines and social media. And so I'm curious to hear from you what are some elements we should look out for when it comes to trending stories on social media? There's always something trending is something trending right now as we're recording this. So what are the elements we want to keep an eye out for? And then what did you find unique about this case, in particular,
Bridget Todd: 14:20
that is a great place to start. One of the biggest things I think that's important for folks who are watching these kinds of stories that unfold in the media or on social media, in particular, are how those stories are being viewed through and playing into the lens of our existing biases, right. I don't think it's a surprise to anybody that we live in a culture and in a society that really can traffic and things like racism, misogyny, fat phobia, sexism, transphobia, queer phobia, all of that. And so these stories that we see are not bubbling up in a vacuum and it's so important that we are understanding those stories through the way that those lenses are shaping
The way that we understand them the way that they are getting traction or not getting traction, and the way people talk about them. And so I think when you look at the Amber's Heard Johnny Depp trial, I saw that as a pretty clear indicator that her society deeply, deeply hates women, I saw a lot of people saying that it was a kind of overcorrection from the metoo movement, where so many folks were, you know, advocating for the need to champion and listen to in center survivors, that this was sort of the the ultimate backlash to that movement. I don't know if I totally agree with that. But I do think it goes back to this idea that our society hates women hating women, particularly women who are survivors, particularly women who are speaking up about abuse, they have they have dealt with hating on those women will always find an audience and will always find amplification and will always get engagement because that's the kind of society we live in.
Eteng Ettah: 15:58
And I appreciate the ways that you're naming the role of white supremacy, anti blackness, misogyny, right in this particular case, like social media was the platform to fuel this, but this is kind of a tale as old as time and so tick tock was one of the places that was used to continue reiterating that misogyny and violence towards in particular women, for sure,
Bridget Todd: 16:25
absolutely, I mean, it's it's funny that you mentioned tick tock, I have to sort of, you know, take a little bit of accountability myself here. This was not a trial that I followed very closely. And so when I first heard about it, you know, happening, I was a pretty what you might call like, low information person, I didn't have a lot of the facts, I didn't have a lot of information. And I also am a pretty big user of TikTok. Well, in scrolling TikTok, I was inundated with all of these very cleverly edited TikToks, that made me think, Oh, well, there must be consensus that Amber Heard is, you know, lying here. this must be like the most she must be getting on the stand and like telling, boldface lies every chance that she gets, because that was the narrative that I was getting from TikTok. And so I think that it really speaks to the fact that me as somebody who is poised to believe, and center survivors how easy it was for a relentless social media campaign to get in my head and make me think like something else is going on here. So for a while, I thought, like, Oh, this must be a situation where there's more to this than then we think, then you will look into the actual facts. And you're like, oh, it's actually like, very clear cut. Why was I so easily manipulated by this social media campaign. And if I can be manipulated, that way, anybody can be manipulated that way along those same lines that I was just talking about misogyny, sexism, white supremacy, those forces are so insidious, there's, it's so they're so easy to internalize, you can sort of be manipulated into believing things that you that are not in alignment with your values pretty easily.
Eteng Ettah: 18:04
Absolutely. And I, you know, what, what you're naming is really resonant, because I similarly wasn't as the trial was unfolding, was not really reading up on the day to day, what's not really particularly interested in either person. But yeah, if you are doing the like passive scrolling through Tiktok, there was a certain message that you were getting over and over and over again.
And so if you did not dive a bit in or do more of your research, then exactly like you're saying, you're getting a very skewed viewpoint. And, and I also think it you know, it's can be very humbling to come to the conclusion that, you know, as folks that are thinking about misinfo and disinfo, all the time that we, ourselves can fall into that. And I think there's a lot of humility, you know, in this work, that it's like, oh, we are not above like falling for all of these different traps on social media.
Bridget Todd: 19:05
Humbling is a very generous, gracious word for that experience. But it's, I mean, this is what I always say, when I'm in trading, it happens to all of us, even if you're somebody who is super tech savvy, extremely online, whatever, it happens to have the best of us, right. And that's kind of the point, the point, the reason why it works so well is that it is aligned on these trigger points, these inflection points, these emotions, these emotions that are so innate in us, sometimes the messages that we're getting are so expertly designed to inflame these these things that are kind of coded within us that we that it takes some work to unlearn and it can be very effective. So if anybody listening has found themselves on the other end of the widespread media manipulation campaign, you are not alone. It happens to all of us and it just goes to show why it's so important to be thinking as we're consuming this media, you know,
Eteng Ettah: 19:57
100% and you know, Just adding a layer to that something that was really interesting about this case is that I mean, it was everywhere. And so we were seeing content producers who focus on K Pop ordinarily pivoting to talk about this case. And so, you know, on top of already having to navigate an information landscape where you're like, Okay, I need to make sure I have an understanding of how I can make sure I'm vetting the information. I'm getting people who this is not their wheelhouse that do not do breakdowns of court cases, are seeing that there's an opportunity here to profit off of the sheer amount of social media conversation that's happening. And I'm curious, what are some key indicators that accounts might be spreading misinformation? Especially when you know, your favorite interior design influencer is now like throwing their voice in the ring around this case?
Bridget Todd: 21:00
Oh, my God, where do I even start? Like what a good question. I think the way that it worked with the amber, her Johnny Depp case was so fascinating. I interviewed a reporter, a former reporter at BuzzFeed who covered the royal family and she told me something very interesting, which is that after that trial was over.
So many of the people like YouTubers and Tik Tok are some content creators who realized that they could make a killing, just crapping on this woman, and like they could really make money from this online misogyny a lot of them when the trial was over, started making anti Meghan Markel content. So what does Megan Markel have to do with Amber Heard nothing, right? But they realized, oh, there is a marketplace for making video after video after video lying about a woman that can make money for me. And so some of the things to look out for particularly online are, if somebody says that they're a body language expert, your alarm bells should be ringing, because nine times out of 10, that it's just somebody who is trying to zero in on the most mundane things like oh, they raised their eyebrows, they sniffed.
And what that really is, is nine times out of 10. It is just trying to add a science to misogyny or racism trying to say like, oh, no, this is backed by experts that when a woman crosses her arms, that means that she's actually lying or something like that. So anybody that tells you that they are zeroing in on micro expressions, or body language or anything like that, just take a step back and think does that sound accurate?
If somebody had a camera on you while you were speaking, and they were freeze framing every little moment to say something about your intentions, your values or whatever? How would you feel about that? Do you think that would be accurate and accurate read of who you are as a person? Probably not right? And so anybody who gets online and says they are doing that your spidey senses should be going off, if their content about a situation seems like it is tailor made to infuriate you make you angry, get a particular kind of emotional rise a response out of you take a step back and ask yourself why that is. And I understand why that works as a tactic, because there are so many things in our society and in our media, and in our climate that are infuriating, right?
Like we just as, as people who exist in this patriarchal white supremacist, capitalist hellscape, we are confronted with with stories and injustices that rise our emotions all the time. But these bad actors, they know that and they're exploiting that vulnerability that exists in all of us to push an agenda or grind an axe.
And so it's very difficult to take that moment and stop right when you when you see something that gets you a little bit, you know, gets your heart beating a little bit faster, or gets that rise out of you that shouldn't be acute or really stop and think a little bit critically about the information that you're consuming and why the person who was behind that information wants you to be in a state of emotionality or anger when you're looking at it. Who does that benefit, right?
Like most media makers with good intentions who are trying to put out thoughtful accurate content do not want you to be in a state of emotional emotionality and anger while you're consuming that content. Right. And so if that is the case, you might ask yourself Is somebody exploiting my emotional triggers to push an agenda?
Eteng Ettah: 24:20
There's so many brilliant things that you touched on one just a reminder that to your point about emotionality, there's there's wisdom literally within us that is embodied that can serve as a way as a reminder to be like, hey, actually, let me like take a step back because I I can see people when it comes to misinformation and disinformation, maybe feeling like Oh, I'm not an expert, I don't know as much but there are like things literally that we are embodied, that will let us know Okay, something something is up here and you may not know what exactly it is, but I think that's a really great reminder. And, and I also appreciate you naming just how coordinated bad actors are. So, you know, there's the version of misinfo where it's like, you know, a beloved auntie who might be sharing some, some videos on WhatsApp that, you know, aren't the most accurate, but she's not have a concerted campaign or is not trying to be malicious. And then there are the bad actors, like your naming where it is, it is very coordinated. And so it's not like a whoopsie I fell for this. But it's like there are people who are intentionally trying to trip you up and get a rise out of you in very particular ways.
Bridget Todd: 25:40
Completely, that is such good context. And what's interesting about this particular situation is that I honestly saw those two groups working in this really fascinating coordination with each other.
Right? I think that there were definitely people who were intentionally misrepresenting things that happened in the trial, specifically to get engagement to enrich themselves. Personally, I definitely saw that. And I think that that created a climate where it's like, okay, well, I'm just kind of getting the collective message that it is okay to lie about this person, it is okay to misrepresent this person, and I'll be rewarded for it. And so, you know, I think a great example is the Milani cosmetics feeling like it was a good thing to do to put out content on their official social media channels that spoke to misrepresentations about this trial, I think the fact that we're seeing brands who feel the need to get involved and make jokes and memes about something that at its core is actually very dark and very, like upsetting, like, you know, a trial that has domestic violence and abuse at its core, that's not really a joke, but the fact that so many brands online, were like, Oh, I gotta get it on this, I gotta start making like, let's, you know, make a little mini TikTok about this. Well, that'll get us engagement, it really signals to me that we're in this new era where it's all about engagement, people have lost the need to say things with with accuracy or empathy or decorum, even if it means that we'll get them traction online. And I think that we all got to be really concerned with with the era that that we've kind of found ourselves in today.
Speaker 2 27:24
I feel like this might be a whole other episode about who is able to monetize their content on social media, and who is experiencing those barriers. And of course, you know, the content creators who are, you know, creating with good intentions, trying to get their audiences up to speed are thinking about a variety of different things, versus the folks that are, you know, trying to make money and know what riles people up. And it's really, really insidious, like, like, you're, you're saying, the, the brands and the corporations who were jumping in and, you know, continuing to make light of, of at the core, like you're saying is someone someone experienced violence here. And so it, it's another example of what you're speaking to earlier about how we live in a society where gender based violence is, is fine, and is not taken seriously at all, not with the depth that you know, it deserves. I kind of want to pivot us to talking about what this looks like for more everyday folks. And so, you know, if Amber Heard is experiencing this onslaught of online harassment, it's particularly unsettling for what it looks like for that everyday person. And so what what do coordinated misinformed campaigns that spread on social media that target black people, other marginalized communities, particularly survivors of patriarchal violence? What does this look like for folks like you and I,
Bridget Todd: 29:05
I'm so glad you brought it there. And I think this is one of the reasons why so many black feminists were very vocal in talking about Amber Heard, because, as you said, Amber Heard is a wealthy, conventionally attractive white blonde woman. If they'll do that to her. I imagine what they're gonna do to my black ass, right. Like, can I swear on the show? [laughs] I should have asked that earlier. Yeah, okay. Exactly. And so I think it's about creating a culture where people see these big flashy celebrities and the way that they are maligned, when they speak up about violence, they have experience and innate in us is this understanding that that's what happens and so I think it filters into black and brown communities where it's like,
I think that with Megan Thee stallion, one of the reasons why people online felt so comfortable dogging her for speaking up about the violence that she experienced is that I think there is a tacit cultural understanding that what Meg was supposed to do was to be quiet and protect her abuser. And I think those messages are so strong that when you see them playing out on TV, they filter down into our own communities into our own relationships into our own houses and blokes.
And so if you experience violence against somebody in your community, the message that will already be like in people's heads is that well, it's her responsibility to keep quiet, so that she doesn't send a black man to jail and doesn't have a black child growing up without their father. Now, these are very real, I understand where some of these messages are coming from. They're very real. They're they're, they're based on very real traumas and tensions. But they are also being used to silence to silence survivors from speaking out about things they've experienced. And so I think in our communities, it's just creating this dominant cultural narrative that survivors of abuse, it is their responsibility to protect their abusers and keep quiet about it, and to not rock the boat, and to not disturb that very pervasive and powerful status quo.
Eteng Ettah: 31:06
That makes me think about, you know, when Anita Hill came out and shared about the harassment that she experienced by Clarence Thomas, and was being told the same things of well, like, you know, we're going to have a black person in the Supreme Court, you know, don't this is not the time to rock the boat. And so this feels like a whole other episode about the dynamics and play where, you know, we have an understanding of where some of these thoughts are coming through. But ultimately, continuing to urge survivors and black survivors to be quiet is not doing a service to anyone,
Speaker 3 31:48
it is not doing a service to anybody, and it's like, that shouldn't be on us. Right? It shouldn't be on black women to shoulder this very heavy burden for the good of others. Like that's, that's too much of a burden to ask to dismantle a system that we didn't set up, but we are actively already being harmed by.
Eteng Ettah: 32:09
Right, right. Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, it makes me think about how social media and the way that misinformation is spreading on social media is new, but misinformation in general and just the idea of needing to vet the the information that you're receiving, as well as obviously, knowing our media system has a lens of white supremacy, anti blackness. And so while misinformation isn't new, especially when we consider the ways that it's it's historically spread on newspapers, TV, radio, and, and other media platforms that are much newer than social media, like this is something our communities have been reckoning with for some time. And so with social media, it's and the internet at large, it feels like it is evolving and changing every day. The ways that these actual platforms we use, they change, daily, hourly, the internet is constantly evolving, the ways that we use the platforms also changes. And so while misinfo was not necessarily new, like this is new, this landscape we're in is new. And so what what does give me hope, but is that because our folks have been combating with Miss info for longer than Twitter's existence, there's a lot of history that we can look back to to figure out, okay, what are we going to do in order to combat it? And so I'm curious what tactics you've seen, or maybe you've done yourself that you found have been effective in combating misinformation, especially when it comes to these like, trending stories on on social.
Bridget Todd: 33:58
Yeah. So I love how you framed that the only thing that gives me hope sometimes in this fight is the resilience of black and brown communities. Because we are savvy, we are skeptical. We have been putting up with this BS for decades, our ancestors are putting up with it. We shouldn't have to put up with it. But I believe in us and the power of our people in our communities to combat this even at the face of like well coordinated, well financed misinformation, media manipulation machines.
However, you know, I do think that ultimately, the real responsibility lies with platforms to do something. The fact that tick tock Facebook, Twitter, Instagram don't have meaningful policies to keep missing disinformation from spreading on their platforms is such a failure of ethics, leadership and responsibility, full stop, but we do not have to as individuals, wait for Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg to do the right thing, right. There are steps that we can take individually to stop missing disinformation from spreading and harming our communities. What is gonna sound like a little bit hippie dippie. But I really advocate for it, which is like, as individuals, divest from the outrage economy, I used to follow so many things on social media, that would always make me mad when I would scroll social media, I would be in a constant state of like, Zoom scrolling is maybe one word for it.
But even more than that, like, I will follow these blogs that would take pictures of black, queer or black trans youth, and like, put them on Instagram with like a caption that just says, thoughts, question mark. And all of the comments would be people, you know, just pouring out hatred for these young people who didn't do anything. They were just like, minding their business, and I would encounter these daily. And so I would, I would be in a constant state of outrage. And that state of me being outraged and sort of emotionally inflamed, was allowing for my guard to be down in a certain way.
And so if a blog or a account or a platform, is constantly stoking outrage, and you they are doing it because it is an engagement strategy, it is not a coincidence, it is on purpose, they have intentionally pursued that strategy of outrage and stoking outrage to make money. So you're probably thinking in your head, like, Oh, I know this blog, does it or that platform does it, unfollow that platform? That's one. And then second, I would say, really, when you're scrolling social media, train yourself to slow down, I know that social media, particularly Twitter sites, the platforms that move quickly, they really reward quickness, when you see something that upsets you or that like gets you going, we're trained to like smash that retweet, it's okay to take a minute, it's okay to think like, Oh, I really want to share this, train yourself to be a little bit slow. When you're on social media, you don't have to retweet everything all the time.
Also, if something is inaccurate inflammatory myths or disinformation, you know, harmful, toxic, violent, whatever, there is not a need to show that to more people. If you've engaged with content like that nine times out of 10. Because of the algorithmic nature of social media platforms, you are just helping it to get more engagement and spread. And so focus instead on reporting content if you can report it, but don't engage with stuff that makes you feel bad and that you know, is going to make other people feel bad too. I think that is the only way that we can sort of topple this outrage online economy that has held our discourse in its vise like grip for far too long.
Eteng Ettah: 37:34
What you're saying it reminds me when you're scrolling on Tik Tok for too long, and then that person is like stop
Bridget Todd: 37:43
looks like, you've been scrolling for a while,
Eteng Ettah: 37:45
whenever I see that I'm like, don't tell me what to do. [laughs]
Bridget Todd:
you're not my real dad
Eteng Ettah: 2 37:53
but that person has a point. Um, and you know, I the steps and the very concrete steps that you're you're letting us know about seems so simple, but then also are like the antithesis of how being on social media works. But I do love that like there are very easy... or maybe not easy, but there are simple steps that folks can take today like after you listen to this because I know that people can feel just really overwhelmed it's really really daunting and so it's it's really helpful to hear from you like as an individual hearing this right now. Okay, like you've already got three action items that folks can take away from this so
Bridget Todd: 38:42
yeah, and I just want to say like, it is daunting and it should not be we should not individually all have to work this hard just to get accurate thoughtful content and media about our communities. This is a failure of leadership by tech platforms and media companies. We are being asked to do something that we should not have to do because we deserve a better media climate for all of us like it's something that we deserve we should have it it's a problem that we don't have it so we shouldn't be have to be doing any of this even though you know it's good to have these tools in our toolbox
Eteng Ettah: 39:12
cannot underscore that point enough that like that the media landscape that we have is not the one that we actually deserve and as an as affirming
Bridget Todd: preach
Eteng Ettah: I'm loving this conversation, obviously a lot has happened since this trial so I you know, I appreciate that we we've already talked a bit about Tori lanes and making the stallion there's been so many other like cultural moments just even outside of specific high profile court cases. And so I'm curious to hear from you. Are there any cultural moments that have happened since this or are emerging that you think either followed the same trend of coordinated social media efforts to spread misinfo, or if they're emerging, might have the potential to go down the route that we saw here.
Bridget Todd: 40:06
Oh, what a good question. Kind of taking an opposite view of it. I was really pleasantly surprised to see that E Jean Carroll who, you know, sued former President Trump, that I thought for sure that this was going to be another page from that playbook where she was facing, she certainly was facing coordinated smears.
But I was happy that a court of law did not get taken by those smears. I think it was really something that Donald Trump the very next day that a court did find that he did that he defamed her double down on those lies. And then she was like, I might have to sue him for defamation again,
I worry that if she does, in fact, sue him again, which is a really all right, like he chose to continue to defame her that we will have a climate that's like, Oh, just shut up already. That's like, Oh, you won once? Like how many times we have to hear about this in when in fact, Trump is the one who continues to defame her in public. Right. And so I worry about if she has to go through that process. Again, if there will be a choir of people who make that action seem like something that that is not her right, as a survivor who was defamed,
Eteng Ettah: 41:27
I think that's a really great point, and that there were coordinated smear campaigns, it could have been worse. That's the unfortunate, very unfortunate thing to say. And so yeah, if she does go back and do this, again, you know, the backlash could be much, much more stronger, we could reasonably predict like you're saying that folks will be like, Okay, you got a crumb of X, Y, and Z. You know, why are you back for more essentially,
Bridget Todd: 41:57
I actually have one more, this might be a little off the wall. But I know it's something that you're planning on engaging later in the series, I think that we're starting to see very regressive attitudes about gender become more mainstream, I think that we had come out of an era that was like, very, very regressive. And getting to a little bit of a better place, I'm concerned that we have pivoted in the wrong direction. And I think the fact that you see a lot of these black and brown, I guess, like men's rights influencers, pickup artists types, you know, MRA is putting out messages that are very harmful and regressive about gender, sex, sexuality, and dating, and those messages are platformed as as if they are mainstream. And I worry that we are about to, to go into an era where some very harmful regressive attitudes about gender are presented as if they are mainstream, when in fact, they are quite extreme.
Eteng Ettah: 42:58
It's kind of like a running joke on Twitter about how you know he has a podcast, Mike, another another spidey sense. And the irony like, you and I can have podcast mics, that's fine. But
Bridget Todd: 43:14
podcasts are good. We're giving good information. [laughs]
Eteng Ettah: 43:18
But yeah, I'm like, What is this vetting system that needs to happen? I like Best Buy like, what what are you planning on using this mic? Yeah, like,
Bridget Todd: 43:27
take a take a test on like, what are your attitudes around gender and dating before we sell you this Shure mic.
Eteng Ettah: 43:34
Well, I have appreciated this conversation is so so much, you've dropped so many gems today. And so I'd love to see here kind of like your final thoughts. As well as you've got a ton of award winning projects. So there's anything you want to plug how we should follow you. What's coming up next for you also want to give you the chance to Yeah, let us know what you've got going on.
Bridget Todd: 43:59
This has been so great. Yeah, my final thoughts would be we deserve a better media climate. I'm glad that folks like you and the community that y'all that that you all have been able to put together are fighting to make that climate a reality because we deserve it.
If folks want to have more conversations like this, you can listen to my podcast. It's called there are no girls on the internet on iHeartRadio, where we talk about the intersection of culture, gender, race, the Internet technology, media and all of that good stuff. It's very fun. It's more fun than it sounds, I promise. Yeah, you can follow me on Twitter at Bridget Marie on Instagram at Bridget Marie in DC and keep fighting the good fight. I love what you all are doing. I'm so grateful to be in community with you all.
Eteng Ettah: 44:39
Thank you Bridget.
Bridget Todd: 44:40
Oh, the pleasure was all mine. This was so fun.
Eteng Ettah 44:53
Since the trial, there has been more analysis and reporting on the specific misinformation that spread particularly about Amber Heard and how much of the support favored Johnny Depp? While it's great to analyze stories after the fact the online conversation could have been very different had this critical lens of the media manipulation cycle been at the center of discussions, and we hope that this episode has given you some tools to use in the future. I'm a tang and thanks for joining us for our premiere episode of actually hold up where we break down what you don't know about the stories you think you know
Transcribed by https://otter.ai